What, pre bitcoin, served that role? What does Bitcoin replace, simplify or clarify that was previously more complicated? Forgive me as I do not understand. I do not understand why there could not have been, pre bitcoin, a proof of work calculation that creates a ledger (but doesn’t solve the Byzantine general problem). Why must they be tied together ? Sorry I am sure this is me just being really naive but curious

No worries - I wrote that very poorly and created the confusion

Agreed. But I have to be careful not to lead others astray, and I’m Sometimes caught between eagerness to keep conversations going because I think it’s healthy, but also the admonition that it’s better to be silent and thought of as a fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt

For whatever it is worth kudos to both of you - I do not understand a lot of this but very much appreciate the discussion from the gallery. I expect many other do too.

I tend to think of the kingdom of God as being a little bit more overt. I think we are creatures, subject to creator, and I think at some point that will be realized more clearly. I think service, in as much as others are Gods children, is justice. But to borrow from psychology, there is a hierarchy of needs. We have to spend some of our time in some of our places attending to the basic needs of others, food, shelter, etc., but we also have to be working towards giving them truth. It’s complicated but I think that’s why we have community. People have different skills and different abilities. We have an obligation to Steward that community in the best way possible. To meet all of these needs. Which we could never do in one lifetime. Which is why we are also compelled to steward in the next generation. And the generation after that. And there are plenty of passages talking about your grandchildren‘s grandchildren. So we don’t all have the ability to give every resource away during our own lifetime Because that may be shortsighted. Ideas are that by which we know things. We are made to conformed the truth. It is probably a discussion an order or more past my capability but ideas as non physical , to me, are untethered to the physical world, and therefore there would not seem to be any need for ownership or concept of ownership of the idea? There is nothing precluding everyone apprehending the same idea at the same time in the same way because it does not physical, and so I don’t think ownership the way that I understand it as a necessary component of a physical world applies.?

Just to clarify I meant this note - mine - was the take of an amateur- no one else’s

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was referring to my own note as an amateur take - not anyone else’s. I do not have any credentials to interpret scripture is all I meant by that. I think it’s hard to take things out of context. Just before that passage, is the unusual passage of the dishonest steward where the master commends the dishonest steward and says “I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.” The more wealth you have – and this isn’t necessarily money, although that is a part of it – the more you are required to steward it on earth towards friendship. In both passages, it’s a given that this wealth is only temporary. In both passages, those who had none were not held to much account. I think we need the poor because even if their existence is a result of our own fallen nature, it is allowed to persist so that a great a good can come from it. But that greater good involves proper stewardship. It’s not so easy to say give it all away – that can actually lead to worse outcomes. We have other obligations, but besides feeding the poor – we have obligations to know the truth, and our tools for getting to The Truth in this world involve getting closer and closer through uncovering worldly truths. And the more that you have, wealth, however, defined, but most especially monetary because that is the most flexible, the more you have to hone your prudence to deploy that in virtuous ways. But I think one temptation of material wealth is to delude yourself into thinking that you could do even greater good, if you had even more material wealth, and so you delay action with the excuse that you are accumulating more so that someday you will have more and more leverage. I think that’s possible, but I do think to go down that pathway without succumbing to making it all about the accumulation of the wealth does become more and more like threading and needle. If you know the poor, if you really know them, if you shake hands are up shoulders with them, it grounds you. It rains you in. If you keep them outside, away from you, away from contact, you can live inside your head, wrapped up in your thoughts, imagination of self glory, and never actually do any good. We need Acts of the apostles more than just grand plans

Funny

One thought. Very amateurish. In the previous chapter 16 Luke describes the “rich man” and Lazerus. My reading was that the rich man was removed from the world Lazarus lived in, to the point we are not given any indication “Rich” even saw Lazarus (outside his gate). Rich was not necessarily mean or communist. For all we know he was an excellent employer and family man and whatever. We know he lived in luxury and a part of that was precluding interaction with the poor. I think at every level of wealth or riches, this interaction with the poor (define in any reasonable way you think) becomes more and more narrow. At a certain point the nature of extreme wealth makes “seeing” extreme poverty so unlikely it becomes impossible without grave. And yet if poverty is in some way used for our good, and we are physical beings, we have to see / hear / feel the poor to know them. These make it hard, near impossible in the world without grace for the rich to “see” suffering. And as the chasm gets wider it fulfills the idea that sending more poor or humble will not work. Akin to this - there are things in the world children see, or hear about, that bring tears to their eyes. There is poverty in the streets that make them want to reach out and help. These same things, that would have made my heart break as a child, I confess now make me check my car lock or roll up my window. However we define rich, it’s created a measurable chasm apart from the extremes. We have been educated - we need Lazarus much more than Lazarus needs us in this life.

It’s really amazing to reflect upon this. Physics is the first science, given that we are physical* creatures created for and in a physical world. To realize modern physicists are not truth centered should be startling and distressing. In my experience, matches yours. This is devastatingly bad news for our country and explains a lot of the current confusion over what’s real and what is not. As physics goes, the country follows, and I think physics has been lost for decades in the symbolism and abstraction of math without a discipline to reconcile the fruits of that tool with the real world. (*but with a non physical essential form/soul)